Listener Questions


QUESTION
One of the miraculous appearances of Mary, at Lourdes, specifically mentions that doctrine of Pius IX (I think it is IX) of the immaculate conception of Mary, which the EO objects to. It's uncanny, but Pope Pius IX didn't engineer anything. That miracles occurred at Lourdes is beyond question - they did and do. Also beyond question, is that Bernadette, completely ignorant, poor, etc. etc. and certainly not able to understand sophisticatedly heard this: "I am the Immaculate Conception" from Mary - and had to ask her priest what conception meant - so simple was she. Pope Pius IX didn't order Mary to say this. Does EO ignore/deny the entire reality of the events at Lourdes, located in the Western part of the world by God's arrangement, in order to deny that Bernadette heard something which Pius IX had come up with four years earlier? That she, a simple shepherdess, never could have known or heard about? I understand the EO venerates Mary, but doesn't like doctrinalizing something like this.

-Anonymous listener

The Orthodox Church does object to the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, which has its roots in some errant teachings (more like speculations, really) of the blessed Augustine. The view of sin adopted by the Roman Catholic Church in the latter Middle Ages (Immaculate Conception is a "recent" dogma, it was officially introduced in 1476 by Pope Sixtus IV, and dogmatized in the 19th Century) demanded that in order for Mary to give birth to God, she had to be sinless, spotless like Christ God himself and pre-sanctified prior to her birth. This runs counter to the Eastern Orthodox understanding of sin and the work of Christ, and one is left to wonder how the theory of IC affects Anna, Mary's mother, and "how far back" this pre-sanctification must reach to have its effect based on Augustine's views of Original Sin. While the EOC tradition teaches that Mary was pure in her conduct and was "full of grace" even from her youth (in the manner of John the Baptist), she was not without sin -and thus needed a Savior, which she herself testifies to in the Magnificat in Luke's Gospel (Luke 1:47). This brings up another topic in reference to Augustine - that we do not necessarily accept everything the different Early Fathers taught on any given subject - it is the Holy Apostolic Church over time and through many witnesses that affirms the Truth, and to the extent that anyone's teaching or writing aligns with what St. Vincent of Lerins defines as what has been "believed at all time, by all, and everywhere the same"(rough quote) - for the EOC - this is the Truth and Holy Tradition, affirmed in Scripture.

With respect to Lourdes, I am sure many have opinions, but we not aware of any official pronouncements about the integrity of the initial vision. This statement appears on a Ukranian Orthodox Church web site:

"The Orthodox Church has no official position on Lourdes, Fatima or Medjugorje as these events associated with devotion to the Mother of God are within the jurisdiction of the Roman Catholic Church as they involve RC faithful."

This is consistent with the Eastern Orthodox Church at large.

-Bill

A short addendum from Steve:
We often get asked “what does the Orthodox Church think about Mother Theresa, Francis of Assissi, Lourdes, and other miracles or saints presented by other Christian traditions?”

Here is an illustration I like to use: When the NFL, NBA or some other sport or organization gathers together to nominate and vote people into their “Halls of Fame” who do they ask? Usually it is the players, coaches and owners of their respective sports’ teams or members of their organizations. Basketball people vote on basketball Hall of Famers, baseball players vote on baseball greats. No one asks a basketball player (even a famous one) who should be a baseball Hall of Fame inductee. No one asks Yo Yo Ma or Itzhak Perlman who should be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. You get the idea. Can a baseball player have an opinion about a basketball player? Sure! Can Yo Yo Ma have a favorite metal shredder guitarist? Sure! But their opinions don’t matter when it comes to the “in house” affairs of the Halls of Fame and votes etc. So, when someone asks an Orthodox person do they think Mother Theresa or Francis of Assissi are saints, can an individual have an opinion about their piety, life and love for God? Sure. Does the Orthodox Church make any official or non-official pronouncements about their salvation, sainthood or place in the Church? No. We don’t play with other people’s toys without their permission, and no one has asked the Orthodox Church to “vote” on their saints or affirm their miracles etc., and if they did we would not offer an opinion because we are not “playing in their leagues”.

-Steve